In the second half, Max interviews David Graeber about his new book, The Utopia of Rules: On Technology, Stupidity and the Secret Joys of Bureaucracy. They talk about the Sovietization of capitalism as more and more paperwork and more and more contracts are required for the simplest of every day financial exchanges. Max introduces the concept of a Fee-ocracy which believes in the ideology of fee-ism, whereby spinning enough contracts and debt makes us all rich as epitomized by the practice of Quantitative Easing which is printing paperwork.